And we’re live

Good morning everyone!

Good morning!

I can't see any video at all--that's normal?

Good morning! :)

Good morning!

Is anyone speaking?

Good morning all!!

Good morning!

Hello everyone

what do you see on your screen?

Good morning to all!

Good morning everyone

Good morning from Puerto Rico! Looking forward to the discussion and of course the report!

Prevention of justice problems? How?

Impossible.

FYI - from Janet. . .Whoever is watching the chat - S Bond has been problematic in prior events

Access to justice requires rational morality and rational philosophy. Without them, you cannot prevent injustice — irrational philosophy CAUSES injustice.

Thanks for the note Amy. Maurits -- can you respond to that. After my intervention I will also look at Bond's messages.

The essence of “people-centered” should be rational. That is the essence of the human being. We are the rational animal.

Better not to go to far into side-discussions, like philosophy

For good or ill, legal and scientific communities operate with different concepts of evidence and truth which contribute to different perceptions of "evidence-based decision-making."

@StephanieBoyd Prevention is about the harms from known systemic injustice issues. Why let them occur at all?

Name a systemic injustice @Joshua Lenon

Antitrust is a systemic injustice.

Eminent domain is a systemic injustice. Taxation is a systemic injustice. Are you on board to do away with them?

Let’s prevent the harm being done by those things.

What is HiiL?

Good point, Joshua. We can and should do away with such systemic injustices.

Poverty is the biggest systemic injustice.

Poverty is easily solved by freedom and capitalism. Poverty is mankind’s natural state.

@petar Baugher -> https://www.hiil.org/

Have any focus groups been conducted? An internet only panel (no matter how large) may not be entirely representative in access to justice issues.

Taxation is not an inherent systemic injustice. How taxation is implemented is, too often, unjust. It is not helpful to ignore the distinction.

talking with DU about options for Stephanie Bond's volume and content in the chat. we can remove her form the webinar but not sure if we want to do that. Thoughts?

Thanks to IAALS and HiiL for this important study; look forward to working together to build the future of justice. Candidates coming into law WANT to make a people-centered justice impact! Kellye Testy, President, Law School Admission Council

It is not a systemic injustice. It is the normal way of things. Our rich lifestyle is not representative of the usual way of life for most of man’s existence on Earth.

Imbalance between parties' litigation budgets is huge issue in civil courts

Poverty is caused by greed.

Taxation should be illegal.

we have had experience with her with this issue in the past

Poverty is not caused by greed. It is the starting point for every person. You know nothing, you have nothing, you must act to acquire knowledge, skills and the material wealth that is to sustain & further your life.

@peterbaugher Hiil is a global access to justice organization. https://www.hiil.org/

If you are serious about eradicating poverty, support the freedom to create wealth, i.e., capitalism.

@stepaniebond, I think you are off topic for this presentation. I’d be happy to discuss this offline for you.

The system of government — and access to justice — is important. The judicial system is the linchpin of capitalist societies.

Where can I find and download the report?

I can't really see the full slide, is there a way to fix that?

How to I get involved in this? I have been alone battling unconstitutional Gatekeeper Orders legislated from the bench in NC that bar self-represented litigants from the courts without an attorney and also deters attorneys with pages and pages of defamatory findings and threats of contempt..

@Nicole Steward, there should be a bar between the presenter picture and the slide that you can adjust

Oh I see, I changed to "fit to window."

The report will be released later this morning, and we will share it with all webinar attendees.

The prevalence of legal problems may be more extensive than people realize because many people don't recognize that their problems have a legal dimension.

Good point, Kent Pankey. That is true.

What differentiates “crime problems” and “police”?

What is the definition of “resolved?"

That is a good question.

Are the 22 and 29 percent totals 22 and 29 percent of the 51% or 22 and 29 percent of the total (knowing that 22+29=51)?

Crime problems include subcategories such as theft and assault. Police includes subcategories such as arrests and physical violence by police.

will these slides be available after the presentation?

Yes, this video will be posted to the IAALS site

Is the survey data available broken down by geographical area?

CONTRACT DISPUTES with large contractors having deep pockets for attorneys are a huge problem for struggling small business owners and affects our economy. Agree?

Are we able to get a copy of these slides?

Will the slides from the presentation be shared along with the video? Thank you for this study and presentation.

What about going to school but not getting a real education? Being in a building labeled “school” is not resulting in kids knowing how to real, write, or think.

Yes, this video will be posted to the IAALS site

We will share the slides with attendees following the presentation.

Thanks, Brittany. That would be great.

Is there any info on how these findings differ in any significant way from long-standing legal services needs data in the US and in the states? It seems very consistent to me with what we have seen as the justice gaps for a long time. That does not mean we addressed those gaps, but we know they are there.

Martin, please look at time!

Percentages don't look right for immigration.

Where can you download the report?

Is the survey data available broken down by geographical area? In the report it is not for reasons of brevity. Very soon interactive dashboard will provide access to the data where some geographical splits can be done.

We're excited for the interest in the report, which has so much more data than we can cover today! The report will be released later today, and we'll be sharing it with all those attending.

Thank you, Martin.

When will the dashboard be available?

When will the dashboard be available? We are working hard to make sure the dashboard will be finished in about 2 weeks from now.

Where can you download the report? One place is: https://www.hiil.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Justice-Needs-and-Satisfaction-in-the-US-web.pdf

The report is also on IAALS' web site: https://iaals.du.edu/sites/default/files/documents/publications/justice-needs-and-satisfaction-us.pdf

THIS AFFECTS ALL CATEGORIES OF ALL PEOPLE AND ALL LEGAL ISSUES: The self-perpetuating "Gatekeeper Orders" promulated by attorneys and judges throughout NC over the last 20 years to bar SRLs from the courts without an attorney. THIS MUST STOP. Can IAALS get the word out?

Thanks Martin for defining "legal problems". How could (or should) we distinguish "legal problems" and "justice needs"? Do we have a good definition of "justice needs"?

Percentages don't look right for immigration. Good point. The Immigration problems are very few in the dataset. So we caution against extrapolation of Immigration problems. Survey research, in general, is not the best strategy for studying the legal problems of immigrants.

thank you so much!

Thank you for the report!

It's telling that the most common legal problem had the lowest percentage of those who sought advice regarding it.

Were sources of information/advice a fill in the blank or a set list? I'm curious about libraries not being on the list.

How did you differentiate between legal aid and a lawyer?

How could (or should) we distinguish "legal problems" and "justice needs"? Do we have a good definition of "justice needs"? Thanks, Andrew! Rebecca Sandefur has a good piece where she discusses the differences between legal problems, justice problems, justice needs, justiciable events etc. Will look up where this work is available.

Is there any chance the raw data will be made public?

Why do we think that people traditionally went to attorneys and courts? That may be what attorneys have thought, but many people have never had access to the legal system. Domestic violence was not even identified as a legal problem until the last 40 years or so.

This report will be incredibly useful. I’m so grateful to you all for this. It’s a gold mine of information that will let us better address the problems. 🙏

Extremely impressive study design. Appreciate the deep dive on this issue.

Is it this paper that distinguishes events, needs, and case? https://scholarship.law.uci.edu/ucilr/vol11/iss3/7/

@martin. Yes, thanks for the reminder of Rebecca Sandefur's excellent work--so foundational to PCJ.

Were sources of information/advice a fill in the blank or a set list? It was a set list. Indeed - library was not part of the list.

This report will be incredibly useful. I’m so grateful to you all for this. It’s a gold mine of information that will let us better address the problems. 🙏

In a similar survey in California, 10% of the general public and 16% of low-income people received assistance from court-based self-help centers. https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Access-to-Justice/Initiatives/California-Justice-Gap-Study

@James - thanks, this is indeed the piece. And of course, you're co-author -- sorry for not mentioning you at first place

Agreed, @NicoleBradick.

It's all moot if the courts won't uphold the law and mock constitutional rights of SRLs with impunity. The crisis is at the helm - on the bench.

+1 @nicole and @Josh

When are courts going to hire more judges? That is what is needed in North America.

Empower different levels of judging — that is what is needed. Helping people be ready for court or dispute resolution is no good if there are not more people who are capable of hearing & resolving the disputes.

Agreed, @CarolDalenko

When are courts going to hire more judges? The key interpretation of the data is that the many and diverse problems require looking beyond the "court model" of resolving legal problems. Legal entrepreneurship, deregulation, use of best practices are some of the directions advocated. It's in the Overall conclusions section of the report.

What unites the different people, journeys, problems and solutions?

Thanks, Martin. Deregulation sounds good!

The judges we have should be working a full week and take time to read all documents and resolve the disputes with care.

Legal entrepreneurship is interesting. I look forward to reading the Overall conclusions section. Thanks!

Does the report address limits of conclusions stemming form the essential choice of method—online voluntary survey? Legal services folks, disc using almost any aspect of digital work, emphasize the “digital divide” and the limitsbof low income populations’ access to the 21st century digital world. On the other hand,Pew data suggest wide penegtration so the concern may be may be misperceived.

Fritz, what other kinds of survey method would you like to see?

Actually, data at the National Center for State Courts and elsewhere don't necessarily support the need for more judges. Courts' problems are more related to management (maximizing use of resources) than to quantity of resources. Where court resources could best be augmented are in staffing and technology rather than judges. Really, more forms and quantity of legal assistance (as in medical field differentiation) would make a greater difference in improving ATJ than judges.

Kent, I worked with Judges and I am appalled that a National Center for State Courts is not recognizing that Judicial numbers have not kept up with population. I question the validity of such a Center.

Agree

Population is not the determining factor for judgeship or staffing needs in courts. Workload is. Case filings have actually been declining relative to population over the last generation.

How can economies of scale be realized in a people-centered kind of system? Each case is unique — you cannot bring in 50 cases and resolve them all at once when they involve disparate opponents, disparate issues.

Great point, Kent. One clear take away is that American people encounter lots of problems for which simple cost-benefit analysis tells that going to a formal institution such as court is not a great option. Leaving them unresolved is not an option.

Agree with Kent Pan... for the need of better technology and more law clerks to help judges read and decipher plethora of documents in cases.

Higher population = higher workload. There are more cases in Toronto than there are in northern Ontario.

The data doesn't support your position Ms. Bond.

And it is good to encourage people to use different ways of resolving disputes.

I'm talking about U.S. case filings.

Well, Kent, I cannot account for why the data that exists on the ground — inability of all the cases that there are — to be heard sooner rather than later — it is down to how much each judge can do, per day.

Yes to Alternative Dispute Resolution.

The same issues occur in both US and Canada.

ADR can help to alleviate the workload at the court.

IAALS and HiiL: Congratulations on the release of this impactful study.

Thanks very much for this information!

DC advocates tried a legal needs study based on finding low income persons directly to talk to them. Very hard work. Other problems of generalizablitty of course.

Thanks for the great information and "tease" to us to think about it all!

And Kent — the problem of not enough judges is palpable for the judges — and is not mentioned in the National Data that are released by Canada federal groups. So — I totally believe that the US center is doing the same. Ignoring the obvious answer because the solution is — hire more judges.

Qualitative surveys are a nice complement to the quantitative.

This survey looks like it has a lot of helpful information. Thank you, IAALS and HIIL.

Thank you for this webinar. I found it interesting. Thank you, too, for the discussions in the chat.

Some law schools in the U.S. teach law students to be convincing liars. The ABA should not certify these law schools.

Paul - completely agree. Deep diving into the 'why' questions is very important.

Thank you IAALS, HiiL, and all involved.

Thank you everyone, this was so wonderful and informative, and I can’t wait to read the report

Can IAALS get a lobby group started to address these issues to various Legislators?

Thanks for this important survey. Hope our country as a whole will take more action to solve this crisis.

From Arizona courts, our thanks as well!

Colorado is lucky to have IAALS in-house. Thank you all and looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks!

Thank you so much for this great presentation. and for making all this knowledge available to us. I look forward to reading the report!